James Mapoma with wife Joyce at their Roma residence in Lusaka last Thursday
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In this interview, Mapoma talks about his extraordinary life; achievements and 60 years of marriage to Joyce.
Question: Tell me about James Mapoma, who are you and where were you born?
Answer: I was born in Mansa in 1925 where my father was a Church elder at the Christian Mission in Many Lands (CMML). I come from a family of 13 children, nine boys and four girls. As children we were brought up under Christian rule and strict principles.
Mockery at Munali School
I went to school under the same Church at Mansa Mission Primary School. I later attended Johnston Falls Boys Boarding School up to Standard 6.
In 1942, I came to Munali, the old Munali which is today called David Kaunda Technical High School. I remember the tough treatment for newcomers at Munali. But there were not many secondary schools then. In fact, there were only two, the other one was Chikuni in Southernv Province. They used to call new pupils "Puku" and the bigger boys were very cruel during that time. They would set up a day for what they would call ‘welcome to Munali baptism'. On that day they would give you very big piece of hard "ichikwangwa" and force you to chew it. But you wouldn't manage because it was so hard that it could cut your mouth.
Chaps who came from Eastern Province were very clever because they would bring Ichimpondwa (peanut butter) and the bigger boys would spare them for giving them that.
Meeting KK
I found Dr Kenneth Kaunda at Munali. He was my senior and already a prefect. In fact, Kaunda saved me from the cruelty when I went to Munali. For whatever reason, he took me away and hid me in his room and as a very respected prefect, no one questioned him. So that is how I survived. I think he started his leadership from there because he was so respected during his school days.
Attending Makerere University
After Form Five at Munali, our intake became the first to sit for the Cambridge entrance examinations in 1946. Only eight of us wrote that exam - Thomas Mtine, Dr Datson Konoso and Edson Banda. Others were Robertson Mulula and Manson Simfikwe.
Surprising to our teachers, three of us passed and were accepted to go to Makerere University which was the biggest learning institution at the time on government sponsorship.
It was very tough for a black student going to attend university at the time. So we were very fortunate, but we were not the first ones. I was in the same class at Makerere with former Ugandan president Milton Obote. At Makerere, I took up Geography, Mathematics and History.
I wanted to become a geologist, but when I graduated, I was pushed into the cooperatives as an inspector.
My father owned a chain of stores, so from a business-oriented background and bookkeeping, I was enrolled in the London School of Accountancy for my high diploma.
Work as cooperatives inspector
In 1951, I got married and also got my first posting in Serenje and Mkushi as an inspector and I remember using a bicycle to do the inspection. I was then transferred to Kasama under the same capacity and later Fort Rosebury (now Mansa) where I was brought up from.
During my stay in Mansa, Harry Mwanga Nkhumbula who was head of the Africa National Congress (ANC) was negotiating for the break-up of the Rhodesia and Nyansaland federation. So they called for a three-day strike from all civil servants. But the governor through his secretary threatened in strong terms that whoever would take part in the go-slow would be fired.
So we held a meeting as civil servants and resolved that people would be free to make there own decisions whether to take part or not.
Surprisingly, many people stayed away from the strike but I never went for work during that three days. Ironically, I was reported of having influenced the strike. So I was banned from operating by the District Commissioner and the riot Act was read to me.
The riot Act was an Act of the Parliament of Great Britain that authorised local authorities to declare any group of twelve or more people to be unlawfully assembled, and thus have to disperse or face punitive action. The Act, whose long title was "An Act for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies, and for the more speedy and effectual punishing the rioters", came into force on 1 August 1715.This was during the period of the Catholic Jacobite riots, when mobs opposed to the new king, the Hanoverian George I, were attacking the meeting houses of dissenting groups.
Life in Kabulamwanda
Later I was reinstated but under very serious conditions. I was posted to the remotest part of the country which was at that time Kabulamwanda, in the middle of nowhere; between Namwala boma and Choma in Southern Province.
My house there had no door and I could only put a piece of cloth on the entrance and put my bicycle as a blockade. I accepted the situation and started working.
One day, Nkhumbula who was going to his village in Maala, he saw me and asked what I was doing. When I told him that I was banished for taking part in the go-slow he initiated, he cried because he found me in this place where there were no shops to buy even a razor blade.
That is how I actually started growing my beard.
There I worked with Smith and Youngson companies from Choma and I also enrolled Daniel Munkombwe into the cooperatives and paid him for his first produce.
Years later, I built a brick house and my wife joined me and started cooking for me. Peter Matoka and Arthur Wina had also been sent to work under me after graduating from Makelele. The house I built still stands today and the foreman in charge of the Namwala - Choma road construction during Rupiah Banda's government lived in the same house.
When I left Kabulamwanda, I went back to school to study economics at Salisbury University in England but government withdrew me after two years and sent me to Katete in Eastern Province as a district government officer and later I was moved to Lundazi in 1959.
Lundazi riots
In 1963 pre-independence riots started across the country influenced by UNIP. I remember chief Mwase then was regarded as a colonialist chief and so the riots in Lundazi were more disastrous.
Towards the end of that year, UNIP wanted to organise a rally right inside chief Mwase's chiefdom and as acting district commissioner, I gave permission to Wesley Nyirenda and Dingiswayo Banda who were senior members of UNIP who came to organise the rally.
Near-death experience
On the day of the rally in Lundazi, I went to see to it that the rally was going on peacefully. On the way, there I noticed some people carrying spears and other weapons. So I stopped and asked them why they were taking weapons to a rally, but they did not like my advice so one of them just shouted "Kwacha Ngwee!" which was a slogan for UNIP.
They approached me and started stubbing me with spears and I bled very badly. I still have spear wounds today. When government heard about the riots in Lundazi and my being attacked, they sent a chopper which airlifted me all the way to Chipata and later I came back to Lusaka.
Post independence life
After independence, Kaunda did not appoint me to a government position because I was connected to the riots in Lundazi and people at that time who did not know the truth thought I was too involved with the colonialists.
I did not feel offended with Kaunda's decision because I think he knew me very well, better than other people did. He knew my history but the gravity of the damage in Lundazi was such that it was going to cause problems if I was given an appointment immediately. That is why when you look at the picture of Kaunda's first Cabinet, I am not there.
Working with Guy Scott
In 1965, however, Kaunda appointed me Permanent Secretary for National Development and Planning which was a separate ministry from the ministry of Finance then. That is where I worked with Dr Guy Scott (current Republican Vice-President). He was a single man at that time. Guy Scott was among few other white people who worked under me and he was very hard working and dedicated. I think he accepted me as his boss and we had no problem together.
However, he later resigned and went to open a farm called Walk Over near the Airport. He started producing melons and exporting them with help from his partner Mike Christy. Their business became successful and he proved that he is a true agriculturist even today.
I was not surprised when Frederick Chiluba appointed him minister of Agriculture because he understands the sector very well. I also think Guy Scott is different from the other white people who served in government after independence because his feet have always been in Zambia. You cannot take that away from him. That is why he claims that he is more Zambian or more black than some black Zambians.
Numerous appointments
After serving as permanent secretary (PS) at the ministry of planning and national development, I was appointed PS ministry of works and later ministry of commerce and foreign trade. I also served as PS ministry of Mines.
As PS for works in 1979, Zambia was tasked to host the Commonwealth Heads of State Summit and it was a huge responsibility on my ministry in terms of accommodation logistics.
So we started putting infrastructure in place. We started building the Mulungushi Village and built the Taj Hotel which I personally named Pamodzi after the UNIP slogan "Tiyende Pamodzi".
You may be interested to know that I was involved either as PS or minister for works when we built the current Parliament Building, the International Airport, the University Teaching Hospital, and I also signed the agreement with Tanzania and the Chinese government for the construction of TAZARA.
I also became the first director general for Zambia Industrial and Mining Corporation (ZIMCO) where I worked for six years.
Later Kaunda nominated me member of parliament and appointed me Cabinet minister to the ministries where I had earlier served as PS. So I become minister of commerce and foreign trade, transport, power and tourism and also land and natural resources.
I was also tasked to serve as Ambassador to Italy and France. So there are very few people who have not crossed paths with me and those I have worked with have remained close friends of mine including Vice-President Guy Scott.
Understanding the work
It is very important that when you are given a ministry to run, you understand what goes on; you go on the ground to see what is involved.
When I was minister of mines, I literary went to Konkola Copper mine underground to inspect the work. That is when I understood how wet our mines are and the risks involved with undergrounds mining.
Opinion on mining taxation
The cost of producing copper in Zambia remains high and the cost of exporting is also high because we are a landlocked country.
The question that is there is whether the country is getting enough revenue from the natural resources because minerals are non-renewable assets. Once they finish mining, they will leave holes in the ground.
Mining companies should pay enough royalties to the country because Zambia's economy will not remain the same once our mineral assets diminish. In Chile, the government has channelled revenue from the copper mines towards establishing more sustainable industries which will keep the economy running and Zambia can do the same.
You should draw lessons from neighbouring Botswana and understand how much royalty they get from their diamonds.
During our time, we opposed the idea that the London Metal Exchange determine the price of our copper. So we formed the International Council of Copper Exporting Countries or CIPEC in French abbreviations with its headquarters in France where I served as Zambia's representative for three years.
We joined hands with Peru, Chile and Zaire (now Congo DR) and said we have to dictate the price for our copper and if we can't at least we should be able to influence it.
Another thing that you need to know is that there is what is called secondary copper which is extracted from scrap but once processed is as good as virgin copper.
As economic advisor to KK
In 1986, I left ZIMCO and took over from Dominic Mulaisho as Kenneth's economic advisor and served on that position until Chiluba took over in 1992.
It was a remarkable experience working under Kaunda. He is a great man and I think he was born a leader. He is a very consistent man with the heart for his country. Everything Kaunda does, he puts the interests of Zambians first. You will always hear him say do to others what you would want them to do to you and he has always been like that.
Sacrifice as civil servant
During our time, Kaunda introduced a leadership code and ministers were not allowed to do any other businesses outside government.
We were only allowed to have one salary and that is the government salary. I was made to sell my shares in (then) Chilanga Cement and PallMall Zambia Limited when I was appointed cabinet minister. Service to the country starts with the mindset. As a civil servant, one has to be passionate about their job.
You have to show sacrifice and serve with honesty and integrity. As a civil servant, I never complained about my salary and even today after serving government for forty years, my monthly pension is K180, 000 but I still don't complain.
Zambia is a rich country, which is why the Chinese and other investors are here because of the wealth that this country has. It is annoying that people are suffering because the benefits of having these natural resources is not filtering down to the ordinary citizens.
There is too much theft today. How can someone bury K2.1 billion in the ground when millions of Zambians are suffering?
Nothing can change once the principle of selfless leadership at the top has not been taken seriously. That is why if you live a lavish life of silk clothes and other material things, your ministers will say kuti washalila pano and start stealing government resources.
60 years of marriage with Joyce
Our marriage was arranged in heaven. Many people find it difficult to understand how we stayed so much in love and married for 60 years. What is even more strange is that there was no courtship before we got married and I fell in love with my wife Joyce before I met her.
I only saw her on a photograph and I fell in love with her there and then. My wife was brought up in a convent by Catholic nuns in South Africa but her father was Zambian from Kasama.
One day on my way to Makerere University from Mansa, I stopped over in Kasama at a house belonging to a man called George O'Johns who was a family friend.
That is where I came across the photo of Joyce who was in South Africa with her parents.
She was only about 12 years old then but I told Mr O'Johns that this is the girl I am going to marry. So when leaving the following day, I asked him if he could give me the photo which he did together with her postal address.
While at university, I wrote her a letter which I later learnt that she tore and threw away… I think that is the only mistake she made. But anyway, I am sure she found it strange that a man she had never met could write her a letter (laughs).
Three years later, I passed through the same house on my way to university and this time I found that she had come to Zambia to re-settle with her parents. That evening we talked about my letter and she couldn't believe that I wrote it. The following morning she prepared some nice cookies for me to eat on my way to school.
We then started communicating and in 1949, I proposed marriage to her and she said yes. I informed my father about my decision but he advised me against it, saying I could not marry a girl I never new. But when he contacted Mr O'Johns, he was assured that she was a good girl coming from a strong Christian family.
So on December 16, 1951, we got married and have lived happily ever after.
Challenges in marriage
One's background is very paramount if you are to have a marriage that lasts this long. We are a rainbow family with so many cultures but united by the love of God because we both come from strong Christian backgrounds.
Problems will always be there in marriage. No one should tell you that they have never had differences with their wives or husbands. But it is important to put the interests of your partner first. If she wants to pursue a career, encourage her and don't let her be a failure in life because of being married.
But again no matter how educated you become as a wife, never lose respect for your husband, make him feel that he is the head of the house.
It is not good enough to tell your partner that you love them, you have to show love, practice it and live it. Never stop being the boyfriend or girlfriend to your partner, keep buying them small, small presents, or just send a text message to her telling her how you love her, that is very important.
When you have made a mistake, don't feel too proud to say sorry and when you do, be genuine in you apology.
That is how we have lived. We live very simple lives here at this house where we have been since 1963. This was the first house in this whole area. I used to hunt across the road here where there is Roma Girls today.
Q: You are a very consistent person, aren't you?
A: Yes, we have been going to the same UCZ Trinity congregation for the past 30 years.
Our housekeeper Mr Ngoma, he has worked for us for over 50 years. He has raised all his children while working here.
We later built him a house in Chipata compound where he went to settle with his children. But he came back after a few years and asked if he could continue staying with us and he is now in his 90s, still living with us.
Q: Thank you very much for the opportunity to interview you sir.
A: You are welcome to this house at any time. I will call on your help when I start writing my memoirs.
